The Tape Insert
Julian Lennon. They asked me to interview Julian Lennon.
I said "me?' (I was kinda shocked). "You want me to interview
"It's for promotional use" said Jackie Tesman, (she's one
of "then!" although she doesn't act like one of "them").
"We'd like to have a non-journalist type interview him, to help
publicized his new release, Help Yourself."
So, after I got over the initial shock, I said "okay."
Actually, I said "okay" long before I got over the initial
I mean, even though Kind Missile (that's the band I'm in) has been
signed to Atlantic for over 6 months now, I'm still not used to meeting
celebrities. I don't know if I'll ever get used to it. I hope I don't.
Anyway, I studied up on Julian, read some press info, listened to
all the records a few times, and Help Yourself maybe 10 times,
looked at the lyric sheet and though up a bunch of questions, mostly
about the songs themselves.
I though up a whole bunch of silly, stupid questions I could've asked,
buy when the time came to do the interview, I was even more nervous
than I thought I would be, and decided to play it pretty straight.
So if I sound shy and reserved in this interview, it's because I
was. Julian is warm and friendly, but he's also incredibly famous,
and I'm incredibly self-conscious and insecure.
But I'm pleased with the results, and I guess Julian was too, 'cause
at the end of the interview, he offered me his home phone number and
said I should give him a call if I'm ever in L.A. I suppose he could
always get his phone number changed if I bothered him too much, but
it was still a very nice gesture.
I should also mention how much I like "Help Yourself."
My favorites are "Listen," "Help Yourself," "New
Physics Rant" and my absolute favorite is "Imaginary Lines."
I really really love that song.
And I like the little goofy things that he puts in between the songs
I've got to remember to do some of that on the next King Missile record.
- John S. Hall
P.S. Have you heard the Obligatory Major Label Sellout mixes Of King
Missile's "My Heart is a Flower" (mixed by Ivan Ivan) yet?
Ask for it by name. Then find someone and share it. Help Yourself!
John: Hi, I'm John S. Hall. Last month I interviewed
Julian Lennon. It was a lot of fun. It was kind of scary. It was nervous
at first. I never interviewed anyone before and ah both of us
had to get up really early in the morning, so it was very surreal,
and this is how it came out..
Music to Rebel King
John: So, um...I guess, well, let's start with
just looking over materials and stuff. I see a lot of the same thing.
I don't want to go over too much of that, but the ideas I have are
that 'Valotte' was recorded
in somewhat of a vacuum in the sense that you didn't know what to
expect reaction wise or you could sort of do whatever you wanted to
and then, I guess, as reaction came in, there was maybe some feelings
on your part about the criticisms you were getting and wanting
to tone down certain influences and things like that and now you've
come around to just more doing what you want to do again.
Julian: Oh yeah, yeah. I mean, when I first went
out with the first album it wasn't a concern of mine of what
other people thought you know of what I was doing. There was no
particular direction on my behalf or even saying that I had
influences from here or there or anywhere but obviously, when
the reviews came in and the criticism came in, it was obvious where
other people's minds were at as far as I was concerned. People obviously
had their own visions or opinions of me that stuck, you know. And
it's not that I felt I was living under somebody's shadow
but I believe that the press and, to a degree, the public, because
of the press, had created a shadow for me to live under and
it was hard to ignore, you know.
John: I heard a story when Elvis Costello and
Paul McCartney were writing together...McCartney was saying, 'We can't
do that because it's too Beatlesque,' Elvis Costello was saying...well,
but uh...(laughs)...Paul McCartney! In a sense almost everyone I know
admits to Beatles influences.
Julian: Oh yeah, sure. It's very difficult, 50-50,
it's like being on a knife. Its...people expect me to have
that influence in what I do and, on the other side of the knife,
people condemn me for that influence, so it has been in the
past a hard balancing act but, this time 'round, I sort of said,
'Well, yes. I love the Beatles stuff, you know.' I'm not gonna hide
from that. And I guess, to a degree, it's what possibly 50% out
there believe I should be doing is something reminiscent of
that and so, this time round, I said, 'Alright, well, it seems
to be what they want and it's what I like to do anyways, so this
time I'm not going to hide influences.' I mean, I've sort
of tapped on them in the past, to a degree, but with this album,
especially 'Saltwater,' there's no denying that (laughs)
but, I mean, as well as themake-up of the songs, the sounds used
in the songs, the mellotron...and you name it, which has always
been a favorite of mine anyways. I decided to go full out, you know,
and - I hope they like it. I do.
Clip of Saltwater
John: There's a dedication on this record, "For
the truth to finally surface, well, at least the beginning of
it," so you're...
Julian: Yeah, well, you know, as I said before,
I feel I've shed a skin. See, the problem I felt I was having in
the past, to be truthful is that, to a degree, I was living almost
two lives or at least two people's history, you know. It's
not like I only just had my life to talk about. I had my dad's,
too you know. And that is a lot of weight and a lot of pressure.
It can get to you, you know. You can't just be yourself or
talk about yourself. You have to talk about your family too
you know. And it was a constant thing. But now I sort of got to
the point where I can't do that anymore, otherwise I'm not
being me. I can't be free doing that. And that's, in one respect,
why I sort of have a new-found sort of freedom and positive attitude
because, you know, I've got to the point where I'm just not going
to talk about it anymore, you know. I've had enough. And if
people want to know about dad then I say, 'Go read a book. You'll
probably learn more from that than you will from me' because I wasn't
around that much and he wasn't around that much so, as a man,
as a person, I don't know him that well. I really don't. I
can remember times of happiness and sadness with him, yes, but that's
about it, you know. Now, if you want to talk on a musical level,
on musical terms, that's a different thing, you know. That's
why I feel good these days. Positive.
John: The only thing I was really going to ask
you about regarding that was if you felt - or what was it that
you felt were the most important things you learned from your father
and your mother for that matter?
Julian: Well, musically, as far as dad is concerned
- I mean, I think the stuff that he and the Beatles wrote were fantastic.
Dad, on his own, musically, directness, truth, .honesty, say
what you feel, don't be afraid, you know, which is something
I used to be in the past too 'afraid.' that sort of put a damper
on my life so I refuse to be afraid anymore, so that's why there
is a new change with this album also. From mum, I think, qualities
that I got from her was being respectful to people in life, you
know, 'Do unto others as, you know, as they would do to you'
and a lot of patience from mum, too. She's guided me a lot.
Clip of Help Yourself
John: There's that story about the album title
coming to someone in a dream (hear Julian lighting his cigarette)
that I read about.
Julian: Yeah. Well, this guy that used to work
with Bob Ezrin...
John: The producer?
Julian: Yeah, the producer of the album - called
Help Yourself. He used to work with Bob Ezrin about, I don't
know, 12 years ago or something like that in a band in Toronto.
And he hadn't spoken to this guy. This guy's name was Mr. Zero and
he called Bob up at 4 in the morning, which is way past Bob's bedtime
and said, 'Bob, you remember me? You used to work with me a long
time ago.' He said, 'Yeah, but what are you calling me at 4 in the
morning for?' He said, 'Well, I hear you're working with Julian
Lennon, right?' and he said, 'Yes, that's right. What of it?' and
he said, 'Well, I just had a dream. Now you can take it or leave
it. You can do as you wish with it, but I believe the album should
be called 'Help Yourself.' And at that time I was sort of searching
for a title. I'd thought of a couple of ideas but Bob came to me
the next morning in pre-production in the studio and said, 'This
guy called me up and he says he had a dream and he thinks the album
should be called 'Help Yourself,' what do you think?' and I went,
'Yeah, that pretty much rounds it up', so that's it, that's where
we went with it.
Clip of Help Yourself & then Get A Life
John: 'Get A Life' - um - 'Get A Life' - there's
a line from there that I - oh, well, you mentioned fear earlier and
trying to conquer it. There's that line, 'I'm just as scared as you
Julian: ...'but trying all the same. There was
no other - 'Fear is just a crying shame, you know, work it out or
go insane' so that's something I hope I've worked out or worked
on at least.
John: What kind of things were you afraid of or
what kind of things are you still afraid of?
Julian: I used to be just an observer of life.
I've always been a very shy person. If I'd go any where, I'd watch
life and watch people. I'm a people watcher, but I got a little
tired of that and I thought, 'You know, I really should say what's
on my mind, otherwise it's just going to back up in my head and
my head's going to explode someday.' With this album, through the
work, through the time that it took and a lot of pain that it took,
I - it brings me a little closer to who I am.
John: So is it a cathartic experience besides
Julian: Well, overall it was like a sort of self-help,
John: I know that song. (laughs)
Julian: Yeah, I mean, the reason how this all
came about was when Bob Ezrin, the producer, and I first met. As
I said there was a lot of things inside me that I felt I just wanted
to get out of my system and I didn't how to do it. So from day one
we decided to literally lock me in a little gray room overlooking
a carpark with just a keyboard, pen and paper, and a tape machine
and I'd go there at 10 every morning and leave not earlier than
7 at night, literally for about 6 months to a year. And - I mean,
I'd have the weekends off but that was the - if I was going to eat
I'd order things in and I'd stay in there. I went through - there
was a period of three weeks where nothing came out and I got so
angry and so frustrated and so annoyed. I just - or anything that
did come out I felt was pathetic, really pathetic and I sort
of went through this thing with Bob as well where he'd come in,
sit down, and read lyrics and go, 'You can do much better than this,
you know, get it out, get it out.' So, at the end of that three
week period, I just went - screamed and yelled and literally anything
that meant anything inside that I felt I had to say just came pouring
out and it was such a release.
John: You know, actually, the more you talk about
the gray room, the more I'm intrigued about this and a question occurs
to me - 6 months in a gray room - did you ever ask yourself, 'Why
don't I try interior decorating or acting or something?' Ever think
about just chucking it? Did it drive you crazy?
Julian: Yeah, oh yeah, I went loopy. I really
- I lost a few brain cells in there but I think some others grew
and replaced them and I feel better about it. It's not something
I'd ever want to do again. For me, it was a learning experience,
something to push me through a wall I'd been trying to break down
for a long time and it was very painful. It was something I had
to do for myself. And I think, I believe, it worked because I feel
a definite change from when I first went in there. I knew it was
going to be - it wasn't going to be easy. I was dreading the prospect,
but when I was finally let out, should I say, (laughs) I felt like
a free man.
John: Did you let yourself out or did Bob let
you out or - did you just decide it was time?
Julian: I think it was mainly Bob that let me
out. He said, 'OK, you're done. You're well, well-cooked now.' (laughs)
Clip of Listen
John: "Listen" is about the press...
Julian: Well, "Listen" was about relationships
and press and just - just me getting so up tight and so angry about
the fact that people thought they knew me through what other people
had said, you know. I mean, it's that whole press thing where -
where they'll say something, whether they know it to be truth or
not, or bull, you know, and people read it and people will believe
that and then you spend your life fighting rumours, you know. I
mean, it's already starting now in England already. They're already
having a go at me you know. Because I was just in a relationship
for over 18 months and we split up and it was a good split. It was
just time to move on, you know. But, of course the press in England
are over there - you know with the last album I was like a self-confessed
abuser of drink and drugs and I'd quit, you know, and, as I'd said,
through this year - year and a half, two years with the album I've
had to be very focused, but the press have already started reflecting
on that and saying, 'Well, Jules is now probably down and out again.
Jules is - his girlfriend's sick and tired of nursing him' and it's
like 'Oh dear, not again. I don't want to read this crap anymore,
'so the onslaught has already started but Mr. Positive is not going
to listen anymore. And it's tough fighting those rumours, you know.
It really is as people believe what they read.
John: I guess this may be a touchy subject, too,
but it is something that's occurred to me. I mean, I've been reading
about you and getting to know somewhat about where you're at and learned
a number of things. Up until that time my impression at least, or
other people's impressions that I knew, people that I knew, kind of
associated you with that kind of ivory tower protected from the rest
of the world type of thing. These are assumptions that I think a lot
of people make because such an instant media figure even before a
record is released. I think, for one thing, I think people assume
you're a lot wealthier than you actually are, for example, and therefore
they make assumptions.
Julian: Yeah, of course. That has been a major
battle in the past for me, is the majority out there you know, 99%,
think that I have all the money in the world and everything that
dad had was handed down to me, which is not the case by any means.
As a kid, I used to sort of get a bit of pocket money from him once
in awhile, but all the money that there is there is in a trust fund
governed by Yoko. I think it was wise of dad to do that, otherwise
God knows what the hell I would have been like, you know. But, any
moneys I do have have been earnt solely by me you know. And, of
course, I screwed up as well, like many other people do with management
in the past and money that I made off the first two albums went
due to ignorance on my behalf. There was stuff I was paying for
that I had no idea you know. Where as now I am hands-on with everything
and anything that has to do with me watchful eyes always.
Clip of Rebel King & New Physics Rant
John: Now, "New Physics Rant." Is that
the one with the San Fernando Valley girl scout troop #592?
Julian: Fortunately or unfortunately, yes, it
all depends how you look at it! (laughs)
John: Who's idea was that?
Julian: (laughs) Well, it wasn't mine that's for
sure. But I can live with it. No, no, I'd had this musical idea
maybe four years ago while I working on the demos for Mr. Jordan.
I had this groove and this melody but didn't know what the hell
to do with it and we finally after I'd written I don't know how
many ideas in the little gray room, Bob and I decided to sit down
and go through all the old demo tapes and material that I had and
we finally came by this one, which I think was called "Mondo
Bondage" at the time (laughs), and Bob said, 'Wait, wait, what
was that?' so we listened and listened. He said, 'We can do something
with this' and I said, 'Good, good, I don't know what' and then
Anthony Moore came on the scene, of course with this mad sort of
poetic lyrics from hell which just intrigued me and I thought, 'Where
does this stuff come from in this man?' He sits in his attic 24
hours a day and, you know just churns out this stuff. And
Bob and I loved it so much that we thought, 'Well, what are we going
to do melodically as far as this is concerned?' So, as far as the
chorus went, Anthony came up with the lyrics, but I took the - I
came up with the melody and we didn't think that we were going to
have girl scout troop singing it but, of course, Bob's daughter
was a girl scout so that's where the whole thing ties in
(laughs) and, you know, the reason why I didn't mind doing it -
I mean, I did enjoy it...is because I believe, to a degree, that
if anybody wanted to know me or how I thought, they can listen to
this album and go, 'Oh, OK, so he's romantic in some areas, he's
angry in some areas - OK, he's happy here. OK, OK - he's a little
crazy there.' I just wanted to show every aspect of my personality.
John: I've been looking at those lyrics for awhile
wondering if you follow them completely. I don't know if I do.
Julian: No, I do. I don't advise smoking anything
and then trying to read them, otherwise you might find yourself
in another galaxy you know, but
John: I really like it.
Julian: Yeah. Absolutely.
Clip of New Physics Rant & then Imaginary Lines
John: "Imaginary Lines" made me cry
inside personally - I mean, it struck me really deeply. I told you
earlier it's my favorite song on the record and that story in the
middle about the pearls which, I guess, in my mind, it's linked to
the idea of the promise of America or something like that or just
coming across and you have these dreams and they're crushed at the
border. I mean, that was just my interpretation of it but that story
in and of itself stands on its own to represent a lot of the struggle
of the have nots, I guess, if you want to call them that - people
who are reaching for things and get stepped on.
Julian: Yeah. It's - It's just sad that, really,
that we're not all allowed to have the same opportunity in life,
you know. That, through whatever reason, well, especially in this
case, you know, a higher power - powers, should I say, that are
on this planet. That people really don't have the freedom that should
be given to them, you know - don't have the choice in life that
people should have. And people are just left in situations to deal
with, you know, troubles like, I mean - not you know, the fact that
it was their land in the first place, I mean, talking about California,
but it belonged to these guys and now, I mean, that's why the first
line, 'Heaven help the soul that's severed from the place where
it belongs.' It's just unfair - it's just really unfair. And, personally,
you know, apart from explaining that or singing about it, I don't
know what to do about it.
John: Was there ever a time in your life when
you felt guilty about the opportunities that you had that other people
Julian: No. Because I spent two years of my life
schlepping around record companies that just said. 'No, No.
No frigging way, you know, either you're not good enough or the
material's not good enough or we don't want the hassle.' And finally,
through all of that, and through struggle and patience, I found
this company - this little company which is no longer, of course,
in England, called the famous Charisma label, and the boss of that,
who is unfortunately no longer with us, a guy called Tony Stratton
Smith, heard me and just went 'Yeah, we can see something in this
guy. I think he can do it' and afforded me the opportunity of being
able to try and make something of myself. At which point, that was
the beginning and start and bes all and end all of how it all came
to be, you know. And I was very grateful and very thankful for that,
otherwise, you know, I still would have been waiting tables, which
I used to do. I still would have been working on a farm, which I
used to do. So, I'm fortunate, in that sense, I was able to find
someone who believed or trusted in me. There was no help from outside.
There was no help from family or people that knew people that knew
dad or, you know, there was no sort of open doors, you know. I had
to prove myself.
Clip of Listen
John: I think that's it. Thank you so much. I
had a lot of fun.
Julian: It's been an absolute pleasure very, very
laid back very easy interview. I think now we're wired from
hell with this rocket fuel coffee we've been drinking, (rattles
his cup on the table) I'm ready to fly back to Los Angeles without
the plane. It's been an absolute pleasure, thank you.
John: Thank you so much. I was kind of nervous...
Copyright © 1991 Atlantic Records
Transcription by CJ Burianek